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Comments on: Mediterranean Diet Associated With Reduced Cancer Incidence http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/ Ruminations on Weight Loss, Health, and Longevity Via the Mediterranean Diet Fri, 18 May 2012 07:45:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: Dave Dixon http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-24 Dave Dixon Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:47:25 +0000 http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-24 Very interesting. Are there any hypotheses at the level of cellular biochemistry which attempt to explain why cancer risk is reduced on the Mediterranean diet? Very interesting. Are there any hypotheses at the level of cellular biochemistry which attempt to explain why cancer risk is reduced on the Mediterranean diet?

]]> By: Steve Parker, M.D. http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-25 Steve Parker, M.D. Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:36:12 +0000 http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-25 Good question, Dave. Benetou et al don't address that at all, somewhat surprisingly. C. La Vecchia and C. Bosetti touch on it in "Diet and cancer risk in Mediterranean countries - open issues," in Public Health Nutrition, 2006, vol. 9, pp.1077-1082. Here's a link: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=960020 They mention folate and vitamin B-related metabolic genes, flavonoids with antioxidant/antimitogenic/antiproliferative potential, and resveretrol, among others. Also suppression of neoplastic tranformation by omega-3 fatty acids. -Steve Good question, Dave.

Benetou et al don’t address that at all, somewhat surprisingly. C. La Vecchia and C. Bosetti touch on it in “Diet and cancer risk in Mediterranean countries - open issues,” in Public Health Nutrition, 2006, vol. 9, pp.1077-1082. Here’s a link:
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=960020

They mention folate and vitamin B-related metabolic genes, flavonoids with antioxidant/antimitogenic/antiproliferative potential, and resveretrol, among others. Also suppression of neoplastic tranformation by omega-3 fatty acids.

-Steve

]]> By: Steve Parker, M.D. http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-26 Steve Parker, M.D. Sat, 12 Jul 2008 06:00:57 +0000 http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-26 Hey, Dave, I just spent about 45 enjoyable minutes at your health and nutrition blog, The Spark of Reason. Thank you. I'm linking to it. http://sparkofreason.blogspot.com/ The best one-word description of your blog I can think of is "iconoclastic." And I mean that as a complement. I'm sure we have much we disagree on, but would agree that the scientific method is the best way to approach those differences. -Steve Hey, Dave, I just spent about 45 enjoyable minutes at your health and nutrition blog, The Spark of Reason. Thank you. I’m linking to it.
http://sparkofreason.blogspot.com/

The best one-word description of your blog I can think of is “iconoclastic.” And I mean that as a complement. I’m sure we have much we disagree on, but would agree that the scientific method is the best way to approach those differences.

-Steve

]]> By: Dave Dixon http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-27 Dave Dixon Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:10:03 +0000 http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-27 Hi Steve. I absolutely take the description "iconoclastic" as a complement. Thanks for the link to my blog and the article. I think you might be surprised at how many things we might agree upon. The belief in scientific hypotheses is never absolute, only shades of gray between the absolutes of "true" and "false". The degree of belief in a hypothesis is a function of the available information, and thus if two rational people have the same information, they should have the same belief. So it's important to share information, and for everyone to consider ALL of the relevant information, otherwise science degenerates into arguments over dogma (which sadly occupies far too much of the time and energy). The article you linked to was interesting, and certainly contained some good detailed biochemical hypotheses as to why certain aspects of the Mediterranean diet could be suppressive toward cancer development. But I thought the section on the supposed detrimental effects of red meat was pretty thin, giving only statistical associations and simply asserting that read meat is bad while providing no hypothesis as to causality. While I have no doubt the statistics play out as described, those don't really provide an answer to the question "does red meat cause cancer?" I think it's an interesting question in the context of the Mediterranean diet, as it is broadly defined as "more of this, less of that" for lots of different types of food. Suppose I flush the grains and pulses and replace those calories with grass-fed beef. Is there any biochemical reason to believe my risk of cancer is increased? I haven't been able to find any, but maybe you have some more information on this topic, which I would love to see. Hi Steve. I absolutely take the description “iconoclastic” as a complement. Thanks for the link to my blog and the article.

I think you might be surprised at how many things we might agree upon. The belief in scientific hypotheses is never absolute, only shades of gray between the absolutes of “true” and “false”. The degree of belief in a hypothesis is a function of the available information, and thus if two rational people have the same information, they should have the same belief. So it’s important to share information, and for everyone to consider ALL of the relevant information, otherwise science degenerates into arguments over dogma (which sadly occupies far too much of the time and energy).

The article you linked to was interesting, and certainly contained some good detailed biochemical hypotheses as to why certain aspects of the Mediterranean diet could be suppressive toward cancer development. But I thought the section on the supposed detrimental effects of red meat was pretty thin, giving only statistical associations and simply asserting that read meat is bad while providing no hypothesis as to causality. While I have no doubt the statistics play out as described, those don’t really provide an answer to the question “does red meat cause cancer?”

I think it’s an interesting question in the context of the Mediterranean diet, as it is broadly defined as “more of this, less of that” for lots of different types of food. Suppose I flush the grains and pulses and replace those calories with grass-fed beef. Is there any biochemical reason to believe my risk of cancer is increased? I haven’t been able to find any, but maybe you have some more information on this topic, which I would love to see.

]]> By: Steve Parker, M.D. http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-28 Steve Parker, M.D. Sun, 13 Jul 2008 05:44:07 +0000 http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-28 You're right again, Dave. The section on detrimental effects of meat was inadequate. And I don't recall them mentioning grilled meats or processed meats high in nitrates (nitrites?), which might have a stronger biochemical link with cancer causation. Off the top of my head, I'm not aware of any studies proving that grass-fed beef directly causes cancer. -Steve You’re right again, Dave. The section on detrimental effects of meat was inadequate. And I don’t recall them mentioning grilled meats or processed meats high in nitrates (nitrites?), which might have a stronger biochemical link with cancer causation.

Off the top of my head, I’m not aware of any studies proving that grass-fed beef directly causes cancer.

-Steve

]]> By: Dave Dixon http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-29 Dave Dixon Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:19:21 +0000 http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-29 It's interesting to dig in to the various "diets" and start pulling out the bits that make sense from a biochemical perspective. When you do this, certain commonalities start to pop up, like some level of reduction in carbohydrates, fruits and veggies for micronutrients, etc. I'm a big fan of meat, and for grass-fed meat there's plenty of biochemical reasons to like it (omega-3, complete protein, etc.) But muscle meat is probably one of the least nutritious parts of an animal outside of the hooves and hair. Organ meats are considerably more nutrient dense (see my "Cow Guts" meal here: http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/recipe/515206/2?nc=1), but it's hard to get this stuff anymore. It’s interesting to dig in to the various “diets” and start pulling out the bits that make sense from a biochemical perspective. When you do this, certain commonalities start to pop up, like some level of reduction in carbohydrates, fruits and veggies for micronutrients, etc. I’m a big fan of meat, and for grass-fed meat there’s plenty of biochemical reasons to like it (omega-3, complete protein, etc.) But muscle meat is probably one of the least nutritious parts of an animal outside of the hooves and hair. Organ meats are considerably more nutrient dense (see my “Cow Guts” meal here: http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/recipe/515206/2?nc=1), but it’s hard to get this stuff anymore.

]]> By: Steve Parker, M.D. http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-30 Steve Parker, M.D. Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:22:55 +0000 http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-30 Yeah, my local Safeway stopped carrying caribou bone marrow. -Steve Yeah, my local Safeway stopped carrying caribou bone marrow.

-Steve

]]> By: Dave Dixon http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-31 Dave Dixon Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:03:38 +0000 http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-31 7-11 carries it. North of the Arctic Circle . . . 7-11 carries it. North of the Arctic Circle . . .

]]> By: Steve Parker, M.D. http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-32 Steve Parker, M.D. Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:56:59 +0000 http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com/blog/2008/07/11/mediterranean-diet-associated-with-reduced-cancer-incidence/#comment-32 If we start drilling ANWR, Safeway may stock it again. If we start drilling ANWR, Safeway may stock it again.

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